Monday, May 7, 2007

Eternal Life

Is there any such thing? Well I’ll answer that with another question, if I may. Has there ever been a more obscure notion, ridiculous question or hollow promise uttered, by any entity that has ever existed on the face of this planet throughout its long history? Obviously and to put it mildly, I don’t think so. Logically, it is a question that simply cannot be answered by the living, and the dead, despite what Sylvia Browne, John Edward or the Pope might have you believe, are well beyond being able to answer.

Just because no evidence exists for the affirmative however, does not automatically mean that evidence does exist for the negative. On the contrary, there is just as much evidence to suggest that either case may or may not be true - or false - but only in so far as there is no evidence at all. So I’m afraid that when viewed in the stark light of logic and common sense, the best conclusion that can possibly be drawn is that we simply do not know.

The notion of “life after death”, or some sort of existence beyond the death of our physical bodies, has been with us for quite some time however. From Babylon and Assyria, to Egypt, China, Europe and beyond, it forms a part of nearly every culture. It’s a common and recurring theme and it’s a fact that throughout recorded history, minds vastly superior to mine have, and continue to contemplate, not just whether it may be true but also what nature such an existence may take.

Heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo, re-incarnation, etc. Many aspects of eternity have at once been contemplated, believed in and discarded, yet no tangible evidence actually exists for any of them that anyone can point to unequivocally and say; “See? I told you so!” and be believed. In fact, we possess no faculty, nor have we ever managed to invent any equipment that enables us to see into any world, realm or dimension other than the physical one which we inhabit. Maybe it’s because of that, the fact that I don’t possess a vastly superior mind and the unanswerable nature of the question, that on the rare occasions I do find myself thinking about it, what I tend to contemplate mostly is how on earth it became an issue in the first place and why on earth we continue to bother with it at all.

Despite the obvious lack of evidence however, the notion has been used to great effect throughout history. Religion, as we know, makes the promise of an idyllic eternity the ransom for a pious life. Learn and live by its lessons, observe the laws, precepts, rituals, ceremonies and festivals that it dictates, deny yourself the freedoms, largess and excesses it disparages and access to heaven is assured. If you disobey or disagree, then generally some version of hellish torment awaits you in which you’ll suffer horribly forever. It seems a simple enough decision but under critical examination, what it becomes is an amateurish but effective attempt to control the thoughts and behaviours of its many believers.

It seems however, that the notion that I may somehow continue to exist, that my life does not end with the demise of my physical self, is somehow alien to me. Knowing, as I do, that the thoughts and emotions I experience are a direct result of electrical impulses generated by chemical processes taking place inside my body, it seems strange to me that I might somehow continue to think and emote once the organism that produces those thoughts and emotions ceases to function as a living organism. To me, it’s basic, very simple and quite logical.

Having said all of that though, I still find myself wondering if there might actually be a legitimate reason for contemplating an eternal life in this way, for believing that our “souls” or “spirits” will go on to paradise once our bodies die.

I recently heard it postulated in a documentary (“Atheism - A rough history of disbelief” by Jonathan Miller – BBC 2003) that belief in unseen and malevolent entities may be an evolutionary step that could work well for us as a survival trait. The argument goes that by constantly being prepared for danger even when none is apparent, we are less likely to be surprised and therefore more likely to survive an attack or ambush by a predator.

That’s as good a reason as any I’ve heard for believing in such things and it made me think. If that is correct, then could it be that the belief in an eternal paradise can also work as a survival trait? It makes just as much sense and would help explain why it is that some of the greatest thinkers throughout history have given so much of their time to such a completely unanswerable question.

Consider that during both prehistoric times and within recorded history, there have been times and places where people have found survival to be a very difficult and dangerous prospect. In that case, then perhaps the notion of a paradise, that exists just beyond some metaphorical horizon (that can only be reached in death and then only after surviving for as long as possible in whatever hostile environment you find yourself) could be considered a positive trait I think. If life ever becomes difficult enough that we might want to just give it up then who knows, the species might just find a trait like that to be a rather useful tool in the quest for its own survival.

The idea seems reasonable enough to me but just the same, I think I’d like for one of those vastly superior minds to have a poke at it. But considering how long the notion has been with us, how long there’s been no real evidence for it, that we still argue about it today and will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable future, then I’m also of the opinion that there’s probably a perfectly valid and logical reason for it. I just don’t think that the reason, should we ever find it, will actually have anything to do with any sort of real life after death at all.

24 Comments:

Dikkii said...

I love the question of eternal life.

If you didn't have a go at that question, I would have.

I think that we love the eternal life thing, because we really do enjoy life, and the whole idea that it could all suddenly be over at some stage is disappointing in the least. Or even traumatic in the most.

So we come up with this situation where we're allowed to continue in a place like heaven, where there is no pain, stripper factories, beer volcanos etc and it's like life all over again. Except with all the bad bits taken out.

Mate, when faced with this take on reality, it's really difficult to not believe in it. It just sounds totally excellent. The theme park at the end of our existence.

People accuse skeptics of not wanting to believe in this sort of stuff. I so deperately want to believe - it sounds like sensational fun.

Plonka said...

Dikkii: The theme park at the end of our existence.

Lol... I love it :)

You may be onto something there, but not for everyone. There are still some places today where the effort required to survive is monumental enough that people decide to give up and die.

But in my case, you've got me. My ultimate theme park would be a thing to behold...:)

Sadie Lou said...

I guess for me, it's hard to imagine the purpose of this life if there isn't a better place to go when you die. I think of all the injustice in the world and it comforts me to believe that God has a better plan for a person's life.
I think of starving or abused children that did nothing to deserve their sad state and I wonder why "life" would be so cruel to some and be so generous to others (you, me, dikkii) we have no business to complain when we are faced with the hard reality that some people suffer their entire exsistance on earth and then 'poof' they are snuffed out.
I'd like to believe that the God of the Bible is who he says he is and that he has promised eternal life to those that believe.
I can imagine a weak child or adult clinging to that very thing and why would you ever want to take that one thing from them?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for linking to my www.StopSylviaBrowne.com site.

Being from Melbourne, you might be interested in my other site, www.StopKaz.com, which is all about a fraud from down your way.

Best,

-Robert Lancaster

Plonka said...

Sadie: Perhaps you've just found another reason we believe it. The thought that we have it good while others suffer unnecessarily can at times, be rather unpalatable so in order to justify it to ourselves, we believe they are going to a better place.

Plonka said...

Robert: It is indeed an honour...:)

I checked out your site concerning Kaz and as usual, am aghast at the brazen ability of some to profit from the suffering of others.

I will indeed be keeping an eye on this one, as I do with both Sylvia and John (I was looking for a "stopjohnedward.com" but alas. Any chance?)

That said however, I'm actually from Melbourne, Australia and I'm not so sure, from what I read at your site, that Kaz is an Aussie. Don't worry though, I'll be suitably embarrassed if she is.

Dikkii said...

There are still some places today where the effort required to survive is monumental enough that people decide to give up and die.

Yes, you're quite right.

I think of starving or abused children that did nothing to deserve their sad state and I wonder why "life" would be so cruel to some and be so generous to others...

OK, so my comment about enjoying life was a smidge glib, but I think that on the whole, most of us do enjoy life. Even some of us for whom life is somewhat harsher than ours.

I guess for me, it's hard to imagine the purpose of this life if there isn't a better place to go when you die.

Sadie, you might be able to help me out with a conundrum that I've been wrestling with.

I'd like to believe that the God of the Bible is who he says he is and that he has promised eternal life to those that believe.

We all would. Sadly, the God of the Bible has shown Himself in a pretty poor light (at least in the Old Testament), and one would hope that He has matured a little since then. Otherwise I suspect that more than just a few good people are going to get unwittingly shafted if the time does come to be judged.

Sadie Lou said...

Slight detour there--had to go visit dikkii's blog. Now I'm back and I've run out of steam.
That was a long, thought out comment.
Plonka--that might be a good reason to believe in God. Sure. We want to believe that people that have suffered their whole lives get someplace better to go at the end of their days but I didn't make that up--the Bible was written a long time ago--long before I felt the pangs of empathy.
And I can't understand why some guys would make the whole Bible up because there is stuff in there that I sure as heck would have left out--but it's there and we deal with it just like millions of Christians have before me. It's comforting that certain theologies and doctrines have survived the test of time and persecution. Scientists were not the only people burned at the stake--Protestants were too

Plonka said...

Sadie: One thing I've learned well in my blogging experience is that I can rely on Dikkii to make me think about "stuff"...:)

Dikkii: Very nicely done :) Now I think about it, the posts do seem to compliment one another in so far as they could both be seen to provide for the other. Meaning can be provided because of an afterlife, and an afterlife can be provided because of a need for meaning.

Back to Sadie: that might be a good reason to believe in God.

We might be unwittingly coming to a misunderstanding here, so I think I'd better qualify.

This post and the concept of "eternal life" it addresses, really has nothing to do with any god, the Christian one included.

There are cultures in the world, Australian Aboriginals for instance, who have no godhead at all and worship no deity yet still have the concept of an afterlife, it just has no hierarchy.

It is the concept, and the concept alone that I was addressing.

Yes, I made the point of mentioning how "religion" has used the concept to its advantage, but only in order to separate religion from the subject.

That said however, you and I have spoken about some of the errors and contradictions that exist in that book before. People make stuff up. Tolkien for instance, wanted a setting in which to use the language he'd invented, so he wrote "The Hobbit" and made up hobbits and elves. Funnily enough, he put it all in a few books and now there are people who not only speak the language, but believe in elves.

So you see, there could be any number of reasons why someone would include stuff in a book that both you and I would leave out. It doesn't make what's written there true though.

Scientists were not the only people burned at the stake--Protestants were too

So were Catholics, witches, heretics of any and all description, non-believers and so the list continues. It doesn't change the fact that in every instance it was done in the name of God.

beepbeepitsme said...

The issue of eternal life, or the potential of an eternal life if one behaves well enough in this life has been used effectively throughout history to control the masses.

It assumes that the masses would be marauding, beasts if they didn't have the "fear of allah/gawd/ or the superhuman penis fairy" instilled into their every action or thought.

Now that's ok for people who have this disposition to go on killing, raping or pillaging sprees. I think they should be identified quickly and indocrinated as soon as possible as I certainly would want protection from people who would do anything if it wasn't for a fear of punishment.

For the rest of the population, including people like myself, we resent being treated like children who are only motivated through fear and disapproval of invisible daddies in the sky.

My suggestion has always been that if you don't trust yourself to act sanely and rationally, that you should seclude yourself from the rest of the world, preferably in a convent or a monastery, and leave the rest of us alone.

Plonka said...

Beep: has been used effectively throughout history to control the masses.

Indeed it has Beep. It's the threat of a hellish eternity that makes it possible to control the very thoughts of your subjects.

But what about people like the Kooris who have no "super human penis fairy" (Lol:))? Both "good" and "bad" people go to the same place and the "afterlife" has no hierarchy. Why would they believe it?

Dikkii said...

But what about people like the Kooris who have no "super human penis fairy" (Lol:))? Both "good" and "bad" people go to the same place and the "afterlife" has no hierarchy. Why would they believe it?

The Koori peoples, maybe. Across large parts of Australia, the cult of the Rainbow Serpent was quite strong and there appears to be a system of rewards and punishments handed out. This system of rewards and punishments ostensibly went into the afterlife.

beepbeepitsme said...

plonka

RE: "But what about people like the Kooris who have no "super human penis fairy" (Lol:))? Both "good" and "bad" people go to the same place and the "afterlife" has no hierarchy. Why would they believe it?"

I think that human beings have always had a difficulty in understanding what life is and what it isn't.

The desire to live forever, or to live as another form after physical death has probably been historically a part of most cultures.

Does this indicate that an afterlife is true? Not to me it doesn't. To me it indicates that human beings share the same sense of helplessness at the thought of personal annihilation.

Plonka said...

Dikkii: As far as I'm aware, the Rainbow Serpent doesn't assume any authority.

Beep: The desire to live forever, or to live as another form after physical death has probably been historically a part of most cultures.

The Tongans are interesting. They believe that only people of rank have an afterlife. The plebs simply cease to be.

Does this indicate that an afterlife is true? Not to me it doesn't. To me it indicates that human beings share the same sense of helplessness at the thought of personal annihilation.

Couldn't agree more Beep. It's certainly got a lot to do with staying alive (damn! I might have to add the clip in the post...:))

Dikkii said...

As far as I'm aware, the Rainbow Serpent doesn't assume any authority.

Hmm. Wikipedia has the Rainbow Serpent as a "benevolent protector of its people (the groups from the country around) and as a malevolent punisher of law breakers."

I would have thought this was an assumption of authority, myself.

My knowledge of the dreaming is not what it should be, though.

Plonka said...

Dikkii: My knowledge of the dreaming is not what it should be, though.

You are not alone, obviously...

Here's a little something I found at Dreaming Online: The Rainbow Serpent is represented as a large, snake-like creature, whose Dreaming track is always associated with watercourses, such as billabongs, rivers, creeks and lagoons. It is the protector of the land, its people, and the source of all life. However, the Rainbow Serpent can also be a destructive force if it is not properly respected.

I'm not sure if that means if the serpent is not respected or the land is not respected, but given their sense of stewardship of the land, then I'd say probably the latter. Maybe both? It's a tricky concept that one, and different aboriginal people have different interpretations.

Either way though, it sounds like it probably gets pissed off for no reason, which fits the mould of a god, so I'll stand corrected on that one...:)

Dikkii said...

I don't even think that I know what a god is, any more.

When I hear one person mention that Buddhism and Taoism don't have supernatural elements, and then someone else harps on about Jade Emperors, Boddhisatvas and reincarnation while stressing that the Jade Emperor dude is both a powerful immortal and yet not a god at the same time, it's no wonder my head spins.

I'm not sure if that means if the serpent is not respected or the land is not respected, but given their sense of stewardship of the land, then I'd say probably the latter. Maybe both?

More than likely. The whole "land" thing (one of my mates described it as geophilia) that Aboriginal Australia has is somewhat confusing.

Your Dreaming Online link in your comment doesn't work - could you re-post it?

Plonka said...

Ooops. Let's try again then...

http://www.dreamtime.net.au/index.cfm

Dikkii said...

That link is gold, Plonka. Am so bookmarking it.

Now I think about it, the posts do seem to compliment one another in so far as they could both be seen to provide for the other.

You're quite right, they do complement each other. Well spotted.

Anonymous said...

[[ I will indeed be keeping an eye on this one, as I do with both Sylvia and John (I was looking for a "stopjohnedward.com" but alas. Any chance?) ]]

I've found that I work best when I focus on one person at a time. I didn't start the Sylvia Browne site until Kaz was stopped (or had gone into hibernation). But were I to start up another site, Edward is one I would definitely consider as a focus.

[[ That said however, I'm actually from Melbourne, Australia and I'm not so sure, from what I read at your site, that Kaz is an Aussie. Don't worry though, I'll be suitably embarrassed if she is. ]]

As you may have found on the site by now, Kaz was born in Christchurch, New Zealand. She has spent most of her adult life in Australia, and up until recently, owned a house near Melbourne. Last I heard, she is staying the the Melbourne area again.

-Robert Lancaster

Plonka said...

Robert: I didn't start the Sylvia Browne site until Kaz was stopped (or had gone into hibernation).

Let's hope you can have the same success with Sylvia. She seems to be almost impervious to criticism though, mores the pity.

If you're interested, here's an older one I did on my old blog after the Hornbeck fiasco. I used your name in that one as well...:)

As you may have found on the site by now, Kaz was born in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Yeah. I did a little digging and found myself being embarrassed...:)

Then of course, there this woman. It never stops, does it...

Dikkii said...

Then of course, there this woman. It never stops, does it...

Jack Marx had a go at "this woman" in the last two lines of this excellent post.

Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?

Plonka said...

Dikkii: That link's busted. You're not referring to the "bindi on her forehead" are you? That cracked me up...:)

Dikkii said...

That link again.

Yep, it's the bindi on the forehead. Brilliant, wasn't it.

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